tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4523012080492654376.post5270524133224878803..comments2024-03-16T22:49:15.757-05:00Comments on Elegance of Fashion: Jane Austen and Clergymen (Or When Assumptions Are Made in High School English)Miss Elizabeth Bennethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02019249086339232260noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4523012080492654376.post-23635401345678371912014-07-10T15:06:06.132-05:002014-07-10T15:06:06.132-05:00I'm glad so many people liked this post! Thank...I'm glad so many people liked this post! Thank you all for your comments! :-)Miss Elizabeth Bennethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02019249086339232260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4523012080492654376.post-72425731894635685752014-07-10T15:05:07.073-05:002014-07-10T15:05:07.073-05:00Very interesting about John Newton! If I remember ...Very interesting about John Newton! If I remember English history correctly, the Restoration took place sometime in the mid-1600s which was also when the Puritans started leaving England. I remember that the Restoration was notorious for suggestiveness (plays, books, etc.), which might have something to do with the "state of religious and moral decay" of the early 1700s (like overflow from the previous century?).Miss Elizabeth Bennethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02019249086339232260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4523012080492654376.post-6634313797544401792014-07-10T14:53:29.628-05:002014-07-10T14:53:29.628-05:00Sorry I'm getting to this so late.
I looked a...Sorry I'm getting to this so late.<br /><br />I looked at Sense and Sensibility: there are references to Edward making 200-250 pounds a year when he takes over the parsonage for Colonel Brandon. I'm not entirely sure if that was a whole bunch of money (certainly not a gentleman's income of 2,000 a year that the Bennets have coming in). I suppose that because he didn't have to pay for the parsonage (since Colonel Brandon would have been paying for that), it was enough to live a comfortable life. If I remember correctly about Jane's life, the Austens were apart of the gentry but they weren't very wealthy, but at the same time, they mingled with some wealthier gentry families. I think being a clergyman was a respectable job to have and a respectable status, but it wasn't very wealthy either. <br /><br />A lot of this answer is based off my memory, so if anyone else has anything to add, feel free to comment! :-)Miss Elizabeth Bennethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02019249086339232260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4523012080492654376.post-46311072077969100352014-06-29T09:10:35.686-05:002014-06-29T09:10:35.686-05:00Thank you Lady D. for this comment. I never saw i...Thank you Lady D. for this comment. I never saw it from Mr. Collins' or Mr. Elton's point of view. Mr. Knightley did try to warn Emma about Mr. Elton not being suitable for Harriet. Emma was blind to the situation and had to learn the hard way. Mrs. Higginshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14151258556984090179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4523012080492654376.post-544045084393854002014-06-27T21:54:18.313-05:002014-06-27T21:54:18.313-05:00What an awesome post! I really enjoyed this though...What an awesome post! I really enjoyed this thoughtful analysis - I have to say, I'd never thought of analyzing Jane Austen's opinions on clergymen before, but it's intriguing!<br /><br />In my opinion, Jane Austen didn't have any better or worse an opinion of clergymen than she did of anyone else. Of every type of person portrayed in her books - men, women, rich people, poor people, clergymen, married couples, single people, farmers, soldiers - she portrayed good and bad members of each type. We could just as easily take Wickham and say that she hated soldiers, while ignoring Colonel Brandon and Captain Wentworth and William Price and the other lovely soldiers and sailors she portrayed. <br /><br />Lovely post!! :-)Vickihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12574079620183911674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4523012080492654376.post-29748636949896916512014-06-27T18:52:16.073-05:002014-06-27T18:52:16.073-05:00Interesting post. I've often thought about thi...Interesting post. I've often thought about this topic. I agree with what you said, also I think in Jane Austen's day there were certainly men who became clergymen just for the sake of living in comfort and having a profession. I guess there were both good and bad!Bethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996539581546622108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4523012080492654376.post-6376736980718283362014-06-27T15:30:51.761-05:002014-06-27T15:30:51.761-05:00I am a Jane Austen fan. And a Christian. I agree w...I am a Jane Austen fan. And a Christian. I agree with your observations and opinion, entirely, regarding Miss Austen's presentation of clergymen being a mixed bunch, that we cannot jump to conclusions that she found all clergymen to be clowns or worse, just because her most popular books show these men to be egotistical. I think that she clearly respects the position and that she must have respected her father's position and ministry. Her characters are all a mixed bag. Some have good manners steaming from a strong conscience. Others have less restraint and are not truly courteous at heart.<br /> <br />Just the other evening I was reading the introduction to the book, "Letters of John Newton." The very first paragraph passes on this historical insight: "In the first half of the 18th century England was in a state of religious and moral decay. . . . The National Church was in such a dead condition that instead of being the salt, preserving nation form corruption, she was only adding to the immorality by weakening the restraints which Christianity imposed . . . God was pleased to send a religious revival which in the course of fifty years transformed the religious and moral life of the land." John Newton was part of the this revival as well as others. This shed a little light on Jane Austen's life for me.<br /><br />John Newton lived 1725-1807. Jane Austen lived 1775-1817. Their lives overlapped. I think Miss Austen must have seen and heard things as a consequence of the revival in the land, that enabled her to make distinctions - as evidenced in her "mixed bunch." Thousands upon thousands of Puritans (members of the National Church) had fled England in the 17th century, for New England - perhaps leaving England cold.<br /><br />I like to escape into the world of Jane Austen - where her characters are warm.<br /><br />I'm not usually this bookish with my comments, but your question provoked me. <br />Thanks, <br />Karen A. <br /><br /> Karen Andreolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12135239838790568639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4523012080492654376.post-52799739436582405882014-06-27T11:24:08.298-05:002014-06-27T11:24:08.298-05:00I did an author project on Jane Austen, and the bo...I did an author project on Jane Austen, and the book I used said basically what you did: that she was around clergymen a lot and gained both good and bad opinions from them. If one were a casual Jane Austen fan, they probably wouldn't be worried about her opinion of clergymen, but yes. If they've only read P&P and Emma, then they've probably got a bad impression of clergymen. (Pardon my slaughter of verb tenses and pronouns ;)Ashleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12335689970676214959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4523012080492654376.post-85005937508936609442014-06-27T11:21:03.005-05:002014-06-27T11:21:03.005-05:00What a fun post! I had forgotten Edward Ferrars as...What a fun post! I had forgotten Edward Ferrars as being a clergyman, but I enjoyed this. It would be fun if you did a post on Jane Austen parents/older couples, because some people think most of her older couple's marriages weren't as happy or good as the young folks pairing off. I would be curious to see what you came up with! :) <br /><br />~Schuyler Lady Bibliophilehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12721843371065862850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4523012080492654376.post-78089389452685738702014-06-27T11:08:12.587-05:002014-06-27T11:08:12.587-05:00What a good post! Considering that Henry Tilney is...What a good post! Considering that Henry Tilney is one of my all-time favorite heroes, whenever I hear people say that Jane didn't have a good opinion of clergymen, I'm always a bit taken aback. I think you're exactly right in your opinion that she shows a good balance of what a preacher should and shouldn't be. And since Jane was so involved in church- her father being a clergyman himself- I'm sure she saw both the good and bad in the profession- those who truly believed in their calling, and those who saw it just as a job and fell fully into hypocrisy. She was probably very quick to see the flaws of those in the church because she was in that environment so much, which was probably why she was so quick to criticize them...but then again, she wasn't exactly shy in doing that to people in other professions/walks of life, either.<br /><br />Anyway, I think that because Pride and Prejudice is so overwhelmingly popular that when people think of the clergy in Jane's books, they immediately think of her portrayal of Mr. Collins, so yes- that probably has something to do with it.Haydenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03463147465564735374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4523012080492654376.post-26036647828334886342014-06-27T11:06:06.843-05:002014-06-27T11:06:06.843-05:00Haha! This is very interesting.
I used to think &...Haha! This is very interesting.<br /><br />I used to think 'What has Jane Austen against clergy-men?' <br /><br />But then when I read that Henry and Edmund and Edward were also clergymen I changed my mind about that, heehee.<br /><br />I don't think Jane Austen had anything 'against' clergymen, after all, I believe her father was one. Tell me if I'm inventing this, but wasn't a clergy-man some-one not-too-poor but not-to-wealthy? Maybe she needed that in quite a few of her characters. I don't know.<br /><br />So, long story short, I don't think J A had anything against clergymen, no.<br /><br />I loved this post, Elizabeth! Thanks so much for writing it.Naomi Pittshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13932777444665441104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4523012080492654376.post-43304221766039832952014-06-27T10:48:41.281-05:002014-06-27T10:48:41.281-05:00I think you could say Mr Collins and Mr Elton are ...I think you could say Mr Collins and Mr Elton are negative portrayals but...<br />There is a small bit in the book where you get a glance at the family background he grew up in...which explains why he tries his best to please even if he gets it wrong. And he WAS trying to be good in proposing to one of the bennet sisters to keep the estate in the family.<br />Mr Elton, if you look at it from his point of view Emma led him on then she hurt his feelings, no wonder he is off-ish to her. And think how awkward it would be if someone who you think has a massive crush on you but your married asks you to dance and maybe the wife has heard the gossip. No wonder he tries to politely back away.M'ladyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02697943030492173302noreply@blogger.com